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  • Linux VS Windows

    Since the discussion in a previous thread was close due to a heated (Very heated) Debate that actually turned sour and took the post way of topic. As well as a little mod bashing which i will apologize for (Afterburn) But I think the discussion must go on.

    As we where just getting to the low down the thread was closed. Hopefully everyone can come back to this one and clear there head and start over.

    Lets just keep it to the facts. I do not think we should do any personal attacks in this go round. Leave that stuff to yourself. Bash Operating systems / Web Server software.

    The discussion so far had
    • Afterburn
    • Billy
    • dimeric (or something like that)
    • and my self i believe

    So here i stand i am calling you all out come back to the discussion.

    Linux rocks Windows sucks

  • #2
    Speaking as a Mac-user and not seriously inclined to approve one over the other, I'll be moderating this thread. If things get out of hand again, I'll close it down. Considering that there are quite a few users of both Linux and Windows servers, there has *got* to be good points and bad about both.

    Speaking as a person going back to school to learn server-side stuff in general, I'd like to hear arguments for both sides so I can make an informed choice when it comes time for me to learn about servers.

    Thank you.

    Peg
    Cat-herder Extraordinaire

    Comment


    • #3
      For the record my windows servers are up, non-stop about 2 months, i am not worried as much about my up time as i am my security.

      hello,

      afterburn: in reference too: http://www.htmlforums.com/asp-and-as...tml#post612533


      Ive stumbled upon this thread and i wish to give some feedback as to the differences of Windows and Linux - and which one in my mind is better.

      im a systems administrator been so for around 7 years now, in my career have been directly responsible of administrating in total over 80+ windows machines (server 2000, 2003) and over 140+ linux machines (freebsd, debain, fedora, redhat, centos, suse, mandrake), Ive used nearly every other linux distro under the sun at least once.

      Based on the information I would call myself an expert linux user, and a very experienced windows user.

      I currently adminstrate 37 windows machines and 46 Linux machines across 70 high profile multi million dollar Businesses, dotted across the UK and Europe.


      Windows has its flaws, and so does linux, ill list them now:

      Windows.

      1) when something breaks or stops working, i want to know why, event viewer with its 24 digit hex code and error message #insert random number here, that i have to look up on goolge, sucks. i come across error message/number 1 more often than not, because windows does know what the crap its doing. Linux doesnt do this, itll tell whats gone wrong, and why in nice clean logs,

      2) fixing issues in windows is like open heart suregery, i remember having to fix up some dll files, hack registry keys, wipe data from cfg files, just to get some program working agian, only to find out that i broke another program on the other side of the universe. Linux doesnt do this.

      3) windows services will break down from time to time for absolutly no reason, which sometimes puts you down the road of (see #2) ..... Linux, once its up and working, will stay up and working, no registry to screw with your head, no random dll files, no stupid windows stuff that hangs off the sides. Linux will work as its told to work, how its told to work, and when told to work, Linux is smart, and doesnt try to think for itself like Windows does for the user and screws up; Linux is as smart as the user, which i can understand why _some_ people havent got very far in it.


      4) lets touch on security, Windows is infact less secure than Linux... how or why you ask?

      Permission rights: Windows stores alot of **** in the registry, did you know you can even get your dailup passwords, outlook passwords from registry in PLAIN format?. Linux however isnt completely stupid, and stores its local user passwords in very nice 'shadow' areas which in common man speak, is impossible to crack into, unless you have supercomputer and are willing to crack code..

      More Permission rights: when you crack into a windows system through a process, chances are your whole system would be exposed to a hacker, one way or another, the same goes for linux, BUT - there is a big but here, as long as your a savvy Linux user you can do whats called - to 'jail' processes (securing the process aroudn the user thats running that process) into certian areas, so effectivly they may of found a way in, but they cant do anything about it because they are jailed in an area,

      Windows cannot do this - linux has very simply handed one solution to help stop hackers getting in and finding holes with linux processes, but doesnt mean they could potentially get around this too, but the difference is Linux provides more secruity solutions (not just this one) than Windows


      Viruses & malware: Windows hates viruses and succumbs so easily to them without protection, Explorer bugs (i could go on for hours about those), um malware and spyware..... Linux - only a handful of viruses, and spyware/malware isnt an issue because of permission based security


      5) http://www.htmlforums.com/asp-and-as...tml#post612533

      in this thread its stated that windows was best for ASP and .net and stuff - and it does a great job of this, MSSQL is also a good piece of technology, it can flip numbers around and do its thing on a excel style spreadsheet.


      Windows however isnt good at: email servers, high availability load balancing clustering webservers, DNS servers, user authentication, mirroring services, and i could just go on and on and on listing stuff Linux has the advantages on.

      Tell me, why do nearly _EVERY_ ISP around the world use linux for nearly all of their services, EXCEPT asp and .net?

      its because Microsoft havent opened up their code, otherwise they would be all 100% linux based servers;

      Windows could probably do what i listed above, but probably wouldnt be as good, and it would be very interesting to see a enginner sane enough to even bother, infact, that enginner could make a movie on it, and sell it on ebay, because, people would watch him rip his hair out.

      Linux is also widly used in: the world stock exchange, research labs, banks, universities, governments, ISP's, hell even Microsoft uses linux(unix).


      why dont they use Windows for their tasks?

      Its because Linux, one way or another, whatever arguements you have agianst it - whatever 'security issues' it may have, even its 'dos' style command line or its way or doing things, is better than Windows, the proof is infront of your eyes, otherwise businesses would like the ones i listed above would be using Windows; the proof is in the pudding, windows sucks trying to do certian tasks.


      Windows and Linux both have their advantages, if you can be bothered - reading and learning a new way of server administration, i strongly recommend Linux - it will open your mind as its done to me, otherwise, if you cant be bothered then by all means stick with the point and click system of windows, and be trapped in your coffin 6 foot under ground



      oh, i just found another thing, one last difference, guess how much it costs these days for a small business Windows 2003 server standard edition? anywhere from 800-1900 POUNDS. (thats $1500 US to $4000 US) - the cost of Linux? $0





      goodnight, have fun picking my post to pieces, and excuse the typos.

      Comment


      • #4
        Very well said, I am a believer now.

        Comment


        • #5
          Enterprise linux is a long way from free, look here: https://www.redhat.com/wapps/store/catalog.html

          And as for Alyssasdaddy, your an idiot, its nothing to do with believing, its science.
          I dont think Linux sucks, its very very good. I just think that for some things some MS products are better. I used to code PHP now i do c# and .net as i think they are better for the sort of web applications i write.

          Comment


          • #6
            So you are counting out the majority of Linux distros just because they are dubbed "Enterprise"?? That's pure ignorance right there.

            By no means is Red Hat even worthy of being called "Enterprise". That is something Novel and Red Hat developers did. They named it that.

            Why ignore the facts right in front of your face?

            You pro MS people are all the same. You turn your head to things that prove your wrong or point out your flaws, but when something finally does come along your way you hold to dear life as if its the last one you'll ever see...

            I've even seen pro MS people rig tests so they would come out the victor, and they complain that the test was unfair when the test was on fair grounds because it wasn't conducted by them. Like with the IE vs Fx statistics. A few pro IE people freaked out because the test was done over a weekend saying that the test was unfair because the corporate users were not going to get counted. Well, those corporate users were counted alright.. They were counted using Fx at home over a weekend when they actually had a choice of which browser they wanted, not what a few corporate head IT guys said was best...

            Open Source Software is the way of the future. Linus himself said it best:

            Originally posted by Linus Torvalds
            I think, fundamentally, open source does tend to be more stable software. It's the right way to do things. I compare it to science vs. witchcraft. In science, the whole system builds on people looking at other people's results and building on top of them. In witchcraft, somebody had a small secret and guarded it -- but never allowed others to really understand it and build on it.

            Traditional software is like witchcraft. In history, witchcraft just died out. The same will happen in software. When problems get serious enough, you can't have one person or one company guarding their secrets. You have to have everybody share in knowledge.
            You're starting to notice you're dieing and you can't cope, MS people. Get used to it. Your time is almost over

            Comment


            • #7
              HEY can you please refrain from the bashing or person, That is rude and un called for i can see it if i called you an idiot but there is no need to call me one.

              How can i be an idiot, Just because i don't like to restart during updates, have to worry about viri, spyware. Did you read the first post? Pay attention. Keep on the software.

              Comment


              • #8
                And BTW just because Windows sux does not mean i am totally against it. I still use it somehow feel forced to because of work.

                Just because you choose to spend money on a sub par operating system does not give you the right to start name calling, I come here to feel that i am 4th grade again i don't think so. Act your age not your iq

                (Sorry had to do it)

                Comment


                • #9
                  I have a problem believing that MS products are better than anyone else's. Maybe, in some cases, they're as good as, but not better. You get what you pay for, in the case of MS.

                  Gentlemen, please keep the discussion to software and not personalities.

                  Peg
                  Cat-herder Extraordinaire

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thank you for jumping in there appreciated.

                    This is more a discussion about Operating systems. Not who i am or what i say unless it has to do with the topic at hand. I never new that windows was embedded so deep into the hearts of so many young people.

                    With the young people i think that its more of a laziness that has developed the same time that windows has, Who wants CLI when you have GUI who wants to manually configure and control when you when you have point and click and the machine controls you. Yeah there newest version of Windows asks you several questions before you can even get to the root of the control panel and security is up by like 50% . But do you want to answer a bunch of questions before you machines are completely configured. I personally do not i love my ctrl+alt+f1 and editing files with nano or vim i know whats going into them and i know how i want them to work.

                    ctrl + Alt + Delete task manager find the program end process wait 5 min the process goes away (I know you win users know what i am talking about) and trhat works most of the time but when it does not then you go to process and find the you have to end process.

                    To me on linux i push ctrl+alt+esc then click on the dead or hung program (Which is very rare) and poof its gone several other tricks in linux to kill hung programs. After installing on windows you have to restart if everything went well you have a functional program if not you go through an entire add/remove programs process and another restart. I do not restart unless i mess with the kernel my machine is up 99% of the time.

                    Linix can be a bit hard to get installed but once it is it is so powerful, I have used windows for at least 13 years Linux for at least 3 I know three times more about the internal workings of linux then i do about windows.
                    I wonder why? Maybe my laziness during my windows phase was overwhelming and linux took that away. Even my testing has treated me better then windows has. I used older machine to run my test server windows was loaded. It was slow and crashed alot using IIS and Apache when i made the switch my server has been running for 8 months non stop without reboot the previous ran for about 1.5 years without reboot i did not even need to restart apache just reload configs

                    If you take me into a windows environment i know alot about it still only because i needed to just to keep it running, You take me into Linux i know alot more but not because i have to just to keep it running.

                    IDK how much of this is Gibberish because i am not paying attention right now i am thinking of what next to do to the web site in which i am developing and what i am going to be doing at work tomarrow.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Pegasus View Post
                      I have a problem believing that MS products are better than anyone else's. Maybe, in some cases, they're as good as, but not better. You get what you pay for, in the case of MS.
                      Well said! XD

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I can post alot more, but I need a afterburn style reply.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Well, in some ways, I can see the value in having a do-it-for-you installation. It's like the argument between using a WYSIWYG editor and hand-coding. The latter takes longer to do and the learning curve is steeper, but the former allows you to pay more attention to the content of your pages, rather than the technical details.

                          Do I think it's right? It depends on the situation. If my primary goal is getting a server up and running in as short a time as possible and as relatively reliably as possible, I'd probably consider using Windows. If I need to get a server up that's reliable under just about any condition and I have the time to learn how to install it, I'd use Linux, I think.

                          I dunno. I'm still on the fence about this one.
                          Cat-herder Extraordinaire

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Sorry alex but i will refrain from this, the subject has gone on way to long. I hope that you actually start comparing servers instead of desktops to servers.
                            www.shapemetrics.com
                            Red GateSQL tools for DBA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Firstly sorry if i offended anyone by the use of the word idiot, i didn't mean any personal offence, i was just letting peoples baiting get to me.

                              I think i will have to leave you guys to it, i don't want another warning.

                              I'm fine programming MS stuff and i really don't care what some of you may think of it, i can charge more and do more with MS so im fine thanks.

                              Comment

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