Do you care about JP II?

[webmasterguide]

Just wondering how many memebers here were really effected with the late JP II deaths? I didnt really care, although I am catholic, but it still was sad because he was a good man!

[darksidepuffin]

Well...I'm wiccan, so religiously it means nothing to me...but it's always sad when anyone who's lived a life of good things dies.But lets look at it this way -- he was one old man, and..he was in extremely poor health...he was ready to die. So I think we should all accept that...and be content to move on. I mean..I don't know what it feels like to have the guy as a centerpiece to your life...but I'd wonder if the people who are really affected by it asked themselves a very important question:

Would he have wanted them to maintain discontent over his passing?


Something tells me that he wouldn't want the entire religion he stood for to be in a state of depression on account of his(admit it..it was expected) death.

[Juparis]

By my religion, he is of no significant position to me.
Still, from the little I know about him, he was a great pope with many accomplishments.
I think it is best to move on with life, instead of mourning his death for an extended time. As demonicpuffin said, I doubt he'd want discontent over his passing.

With a new pope soon to arise, I don't see myself getting very excited. After all, he is just another man to me. And yet, I am intrigued by the Catholic practices, and wonder why so many people willingly follow it. There are so many practices I would not agree with, making me dislike Catholicism (not the people; just the practices) all the more. Still, JP II was a good religious and political figure, who achieved many things others (of any religion) could not. I only hope the next pope can live up to the new standards.

[Pegasus]

His Holiness was a kind man stuck in a hard job. I didn't agree with some of what he said, but I applaud him for having the courage to say it. The Catholic Church was blessed to have someone like him to lead during the last twenty, rather turbulent, years.

Will I miss him? Like the Puffin, I follow a Pagan religion, so his passing has no religious meaning for me, but I will miss the solidity and stability he appeared to give to the Church.

Right now, it's like waiting for the other shoe to fall, to see who the next Pope will be and what the next Sphere of Influence will bring.

Peg

[Blueangel]

JPII's death did affect me more than I expected it to. I even sneaked down to the foyer of the building I work in to catch a bit of the funeral on tv.

It brought back a lot of memories from my late teens... The days of Solidarity, the Gdansk shipyards and Lech Walesa being Time magazine's Man Of The Year. It particularly brought back memories of the debates we used to have in General Studies class when I was at college. In those days, it was us versus the Thatcherites and I would never back down until the last one of them crumbled. If it meant them storming out of the debate or breaking down in tears, I'd never back down because I knew they were wrong. :P I was known as 'Red Ang' as a result ;)

It also brought back memories of that day 15 short years ago, when I woke to the news that the wall that had divided Europe for my entire life, had been smashed. I cried like a baby that day, but it was tears of relief and hope.
Lech Walesa said that when he took to the walls of the Gdansk shipyard, Solidarity had 1,000 members. Then JPII gave the cause his backing and the following day they had 100,000 members.

The rest is history.

[Horus_Kol]

I'm not a Catholic, but I acknowledge that John Paul II was a man who tried his best to leave the world a better place than the one into which he came into.

He has done much to reconcile disagreements between many people throughout the world, and maintained a standard of morals, despite the clash with our more hedonistic, modern lifestyle.


I just hope that the next one is as good.

[darksidepuffin]

From reading some people's(not here) reactions to it...it seems that a lot of non-catholics are getting the reputation of sort of "having a party..joy to the world..the pope is dead" sort of attitude. As Cheryl and I so meticulously pointed out -- not all non-catholics are quite so heartless. Sure..the guy had no bearing on our religion...but I mean come on people -- he was(so I hear) a good man...why be glad a good man is dead, when theres only a small amount of good men -left- in the world?If your going to be -glad- someones dead...save it for when carla holmolka and her husband get murdered by a gang of parents.

But..as you see..his death has effected people in different ways...and it wouldeve effected me differently again, had certain-life-issues-I-choose-not-to-go-into-due-to-their-off-topic-nature had unfolded differently.

Regardless of how you reacted...I'm sure we can all agree that he -was- a good man, and a good man's death deserves mourning. How much mourning...is entirely a personal thing.

[webmasterguide]

I'm not too much into the Pope but I wonder how the next Pope will fill his shoes and how he will lead the religion. Should be interesting

[quietstorm]

Being only 18 years of age, it hasn't really affected me. From posts I've seen on other message boards, the primary reason non-Catholics have been saddened by his death was his hand in ending (pseudo) communism.

Being that I tend towards agreeing with many communist principles (and, no, Soviet Russia was not communist, because forced communism is no communism at all), and that I was four or five years old when the Berlin wall came down, it's not as if those events are particularly momentuous occasions in my life.

I'm also inclined to disagree with the notion that the Pope dying is any more important than some stranger who lives down the road from me dying. The Pope's actions were certainly important, as was his position, but the man in the position was no more important than anybody else.

(Oh, and being somebody opposed to the mere existence of a Pope, it's certainly less likely to affect me.)

[Pegasus]

Ah, QS. How I've missed your 'anti-everything' posts. ;) Welcome back, stranger.

True, the Pope was only a man and no more or less important than the guy down the street, but he was a role model for a lot of people. I wouldn't take the Pope's job for all the tea in China, Sri Lanka, India, and Africa combined.

Peg

[darksidepuffin]

Originally posted by Pegasus

True, the Pope was only a man and no more or less important than the guy down the street, but he was a role model for a lot of people. I wouldn't take the Pope's job for all the tea in China, Sri Lanka, India, and Africa combined.


nor would I...I'll leave that to my ex.


oops..sorry..it slipped ^_~

*goes to change certain cp options*

[Blueangel]

Originally posted by quietstorm
... and that I was four or five years old when the Berlin wall came down, it's not as if those events are particularly momentuous occasions in my life.
No, but it was one of the most momentous occasions in the last century. There's no denying that.

Every time a Westerner visits Prague, Budapest or St.Petersburg and enjoys the experience, they should be thankful for the likes of Walesa and JPII who worked so hard to make that level of freedom of movement possible.
It's as simple as that.

[Horus_Kol]

QS, if the Berlin Wall hadn't come down, and the events leading to that hadn't happened, we'd still be in a world where two of the biggest nuclear arsenals going would be squared up against each other...

And you think it doesn't affect your life?


I was only 10 or 11 when the wall came down, but I could tell as I watched on the news that this was something that would mean a new world. And it has.


And as far as the death of the Pope being "only the death of a man" - well, that man can not do what he has done before, and that is the loss... in fact, that is what it always is - we don't grieve after people because they aren't breathing, but because they aren't doing what they have done before.

I am hoping that the next Pope will be much the same as John Paul II - conserative, without being too conservative, compassionate, and able to inspire people who did not even belong to his church.

[blackbeard]

Originally posted by Blueangel
Lech Walesa said that when he took to the walls of the Gdansk shipyard, Solidarity had 1,000 members. Then JPII gave the cause his backing and the following day they had 100,000 members.

I was raised a Catholic, but I disagreed with much church doctrine that John Paul II stated.

But I believe he was a great man because he was not afraid to use his position in a social manner to benefit society. He did not just hide in Vatican City, spout some occasional church doctrine and hole up for another few years.

He traveled, and while doing it, made people feel like they mattered.

And while he didn't go out himself to knock down the Berlin Wall, he knew when and how to turn the screws.

[Juparis]

I fail to see the purpose of mourning over the late pope... The religion for which he stands, Catholicism, teaches rejoicing over the death of great believers for their new afterlife begins. With the pope, no doubt he'll be going to heaven. Why such useless mourning?

Ok, so many users aren't Catholic and may not believe in Heaven/Purgatory/Hell, but what good comes from mourning? Why not be proud of all his accomplishments, flaunt them to the rest of the world, and be glad he was ever alive. I can't say I get all too excited over his accomplishments since none of them directly affected me. Still, I take no shame in refusing to grieve over another man I never knew. (Is this offending? I'm not trying to be, just trying to lighten up the general mood)

[Horus_Kol]

Juparis, we don't mourn for the person who has passed on, we mourn for the fact that they aren't among us anymore.

It's our own loss that we truly grieve for.

[quietstorm]

Originally posted by Pegasus
Ah, QS. How I've missed your 'anti-everything' posts. ;) Welcome back, stranger.

True, the Pope was only a man and no more or less important than the guy down the street, but he was a role model for a lot of people. I wouldn't take the Pope's job for all the tea in China, Sri Lanka, India, and Africa combined.

Peg
Not anti-everything! Just anti-most-things. And I've certainly become a bit more liberal since my last tenure here. I'm just more cynical, at the same time!


Originally posted by Horus_KolQS, if the Berlin Wall hadn't come down, and the events leading to that hadn't happened, we'd still be in a world where two of the biggest nuclear arsenals going would be squared up against each other...

And you think it doesn't affect your life?
It's not so much that it doesn't affect my life as it's simply not personally important to me. I certainly can't remember it happening, and it hasn't had any great personal effect. For me, it's no different than the end of World War I. Yes, it's important, but it's not something that has, again, any personal effect upon me.

(Though, to be honest, the end of WWI, and related events, have affected my life a great deal more.)

It's no more important than Shakespeare writing his plays. No more important than the writing of Morte Darthur, nor The Canterbury Tales.

It's a somewhat distant event, with very little effect upon who I am.

(Or maybe it does have a greater effect than I know... look what happened in the good ol' USA after the USSR disintegrated. We became a polarized political state; we had nobody to hate universally, and had to start hating ourselves. So, in a way, the fall of the Berlin wall is a partial symbol of why I'm the cynist I am.)

[kemikalfire]

well, there's a new pope...benedict the 16th
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/04/19/pope.tuesday/index.html

kate!

[Blueangel]

I am surprised with this choice!

One of JPII's closest friends and a reformer.

My money was on Cardinal Francis Arinze or Cardinal Rodriguez Maradiaga.
I'm inclined to think that Pope Benedict will be an 'interim' Pope until one of the other candidates is ready.

[blackbeard]

Most likely. The guy is already 78, so they weren't going for somebody for the long term. I would think this is a nice, safe interim move -- let somebody else get a few more years experience. In the meantime, they vote in some guy who has been around for a while, is conservative on church theology, and doesn't appear that he'll rock the church boat.

[leptogenesis]

hmm...the new pope is german. I have heard that germany has the highest number of atheists per capita of any country in the world...

[Horus_Kol]

hmm... aren't there predictions that this is the penultimate pope?

I seem to remember reading in a biography of Nostradamus that he had predicted the end of the Catholic Church and the number of popes left back in the 1600's...

I'm also pretty sure that he predicted an increasingly conservative leadership within the church.

[Blueangel]

Originally posted by Horus_Kol
hmm... aren't there predictions that this is the penultimate pope? There's that, and I was told that JPII's tomb was the last one in the Vatican crypt when I visited it back in '91.

Watch out for the Vatican seeking planning permission for an underground extension :D