Suspect death of British Weapons Expert

[entimp]

I dont know if anyone has followed the fisty cuffs between the UK government and the BBC but it has taken a new twist.

After being exposed as a possible source for the BBC's recent fall out with the government David Kelly was found dead today day in woodlands. He was a millitary expert for the MoD.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3076801.stm

Many think he was driven to kill himself by the pressure placed on him by the government... some radio reports I have listened to have hinted at him being knocked off.

It would seem strange that his name was made public where it shouldnt have been in this case... but for some reason Downing street decided to let the world know who it was... perhaps sealing his fate, where the BBC refused to name anyone who provided information. Tony Blair has pubicly challnged the BBC to name David Kelly as the source.

More twists to this yet I think.

Background information
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3077059.stm

[Blueangel]

It's diabolical that Blair named David Kelly!
Anyone in his position, put in this situation, would feel utterly betrayed.
Heads MUST roll for this!

[KWJams]

I am sure that I do not have a full grasp on the situation, but it looks to me like the guy was in a government position that placed restrictions on disclosing information to the media who then stabbed him in the back by revealing him as the source.

Dr Kelly, 59, had been caught up in a row between the BBC and the government about the use of intelligence reports in the run-up to the war with Iraq. On Tuesday he told the Foreign Affairs select committee he had spoken to BBC reporter Andrew Gilligan but denied he was the main source for a story about claims that a dossier on Iraq had been "sexed up".

Robert Jackson, the Conservative MP in whose constituency Dr Kelly lived, said the "responsibility of the BBC should not go unmentioned" in the case.

"The pressure was significantly increased by the fact the BBC refused to make it clear he was not the source," he said.

A BBC spokesman said: "We are shocked and saddened to hear what has happened and we extend our deepest sympathies to Dr Kelly's family and friends.

Saw a small clip on the news locally here today and they pretty much confirmed that his death was ruled a suicide.

I guess what I am confused about is who the bad guys are in this story?

The BBC reporter that revealed and compromised him as a news source -- or the PM who has staff available that could simply dismiss with the wave of a hand the sexed up story as being foolish. :confused:

It is hard to imagine the story could be that damaging to PM Blair that Dr Kelly would be killed by a secret assassin.

It is also hard to imagine anything other than the guy realized that he may have destroyed his career by placing his confidence in a BBC reporter.

[entimp]

As far as I know... no-one has actually confirmed that Dr. Kelly was the source of this information at all.

I guess his actions to take his own life some it up but this may not be the case. His last email to a journo hours before he died said his life had been made unbearable by dark figures behind the scenes (the government in one form or another).

I think Tony should now step down for putting his name in the public domain. To say he has blood on his hands is probably quite correct. I also want to know what kind of role Geoff Hoon played in this mess... Geoff Hoon heads the MoD and would have had exerted a lot of pressure on Dr. Kelly directly or not.

As for the BBC... Should they have revealed their source. I say no 100% of the way. Investigative journalism relies on the secrecy of the source. I am not a big fan of many journalists but how do we hope to crack down on so many shady and illegal affairs without journalism like this.

This guy should not have been named at all and heads should roll.

[Blueangel]

When this story first broke a few weeks ago, the BBC resolutely refused to name their source.
It was the 'dark actors' within the Government that revealed him as being the suspect source.

When anyone is put up as a scapegoat, the pressure is unbelieveable!
IF David Kelly WAS the whistle blower, he did the right thing. It takes a lot of courage to air grave concerns about such sensitive issues.
If it wasn't David Kelly, would the real whistle blower please stand up?

[Horus_Kol]

I have to say that I am not totally surprised that this thread was started, and by Entimp as well.

What may surprise you is that I also thought the death was suspicious.

But certain other items have come to light since Saturday.


The BBC has now confirmed that Dr Kelly was their principle source for the accusations against the government concerning the "sexed up" document.

Which means that he broke the disclosure rules that his job held. It also means he lied at the select committee (now, I don't think that there are any legal repurcussions from lying in one of these committee meetings - but it's still wrong).

The man was obviously under a lot of stress - but if he was the person that disclosed to the BBC (and the BBC have named him now), then he made his decision then.

[transmothra]

i was watching the BBC when they announced that he was missing, and then when they announced that "a body" had been found, and watched another announcement that the body had been ID'd.

suicide? very possibly; likely even. left arm slash, plus knife of some sort found nearby. but it seems too convenient. far too convenient.

usually suicides slash two arms. slashing just the non-dominant one leads me to suspect that someone might have thought about which arm would look more plausible.

and why not just die at home? why kill yourself in a park? why not just tell the wife you're taking a bath, and drain your blood out before she even starts wondering what's taking you so long? i mean, it would be so much more comfortable at home, i'd think.

it would take a little while to die out one arm, which leads me to believe that if it wasn't a suicide, there had to be some agent of immobilization involved. something like chloroform to make the victim pass out.

i know politicians are like gangsters, and i know that the American who (likely) killed Vince Foster are among the worst gangsters of all. and i know that Tony Blair has been R.J.-ing George Bush (Gangster One) for some time now.

so it would not shock me in the slightest if it comes out later on that it was not really a suicide after all. in fact, it would shock me quite a bit, but only that it came out at all.

[entimp]

Am I surprised that your not surprised Horus? Not really... I dont see a problem with being concenred with the way things around me twist and turn. More people should be concerned but are too busy with other more trivial things in life and dont shout about what they believe in. I have simply started a discussion and I feel my opening stance was quite balanced to be honest. This is after all an open forum and I feel interested enough to discuss it with anyone who feels likewise.

Welcome back Trans! Not seen you about for a while or maybe I just missed your posts.

I myself feel there is something wrong with this. Dr Kelly sent two emails on the day he died. One was up-beat to a colleague and friend who served as a weapons inspector with him... the msg ended up saying he was looking forward to meeting up with him again. The other email was incredibly downbeat to a journalist talking about dark actors messing with his lfe.

Why send two completely conflicting emails on the same day?

Dr Kelly wasnt the shy and underspoken man most people thinks he is. He was a very accomplished millitary expert and was responsible for revealing the extent of Russia's biological weapons stock. He had been working on the situation of Iraqs waepons for 10 years... I would say as a result there are not many people in the so called loop that knew as much as he did.

He had also been nominated for the nobel peace prize.

I dont think this guy had any reaon to kill himself. Perhaps he knew things that were considered a bit touchy to say the least. We will never know... but working on the Iraqi affair for 10 years I sure he did.

As for the slitting wrist, I come into contact with coroners most nights of the week and will pose this to them Trans. The Doctor I am with finds this hard to believe.

I would tend to agree with you though. It all seemed too perfect but not. I am 50/50 on the self harm/murder issue as I dont think either aspect could be discounted.

One way or another we will never know.

[Horus_Kol]

Originally Posted by Entimp
Why send two completely conflicting emails on the same day?

Having known a couple of people who have attempted suicide (and also going through a darkly depressive period in my own life a few years ago), what I can tell you is this:

People become really good at hiding their emotions - at first this is because they feel them to be private feelings. However, it gradually becomes more difficult to release those emotions, as you build up more of a wall.

Eventually, you tend to go through huge swings. It all comes out in short bursts - at one point you're on a high, and everything is great, and the next you're on a low, and the world is dark and nobody cares.

These swings can take days to get through, or pass in just a few minutes.


Originally Posted by Entimp
One way or another we will never know

That's almost saying that he was murdered, and it will be covered up.


Originally Posted by Transmothra
i know that Tony Blair has been R.J.-ing George Bush (Gangster One) for some time now.

Don't understand the term RJ-ing.

However, if this is another reference to Tony Blair being a lapdog to the US, I would argue against this.

It was Blair that brought the US in Kosovo. Blair has been telling the US to sort it's Israel policy out for sometime now. And Blair did delay the start of the war (albeit for only a couple of months).

[entimp]

Originally posted by Horus_Kol
Having known a couple of people who have attempted suicide (and also going through a darkly depressive period in my own life a few years ago), what I can tell you is this:

People become really good at hiding their emotions - at first this is because they feel them to be private feelings. However, it gradually becomes more difficult to release those emotions, as you build up more of a wall.

Eventually, you tend to go through huge swings. It all comes out in short bursts - at one point you're on a high, and everything is great, and the next you're on a low, and the world is dark and nobody cares.
Fair point but it also might not be the case in hand.
That's almost saying that he was murdered, and it will be covered up.
Perhaps, but if he was we will never know... that is all I am saying.
Don't understand the term RJ-ing.
I can only assume he meant "rogering", if cool bit of English vernacular if it is...

[transmothra]

Originally posted by Horus_Kol
Don't understand the term RJ-ing.it's incredibly inappropriate here, sorry! can't explain it, all i can say is it seems to fit the situation politically.