Directory idea, info and anyone interested?

[entimp]

Morning all!
Have an idea and I have not run into it before, your suggestions and thoughts would be most welcome...

The Problem: How to increase trafic to your site whilst only being listed on a few search engines and/or directories!

What I know: I understand that having your meta tags perfected and being listed on a search engine or two can only help you so far. It seems to me that rankings, in the most part, are determined heavily on how many times your url appears in any given search engine/directory. I.E. Having lots of other sites link to you that are also indexed will improve your ranking. Am I correct in this assumption?

A solution: My idea might not be 100% new but it has a twist! So bare with me.
1) The first step is the creation of a micro yahoo type directory that fits in with the genre/feel of your website. In my case an entertainment based DIR for Ent Imp Dot Com (http://www.entimp.com). Nothing new so far.
2) The DIR is updated on weekly basis from user submissions and then made available to search from Ent Imp Dot Com.
3) The Dir is also saved as a zip file for downloading (on a weekly basis as well), with all the ASP/PERL/ETC operating files. Thus anyone who submits a link can also host the DIR.

Why have more than one host for the Dir?

Let's say that in time we have a 1000 mirrors of the DIR, and that 80% of these mirrors are indexed by 5 search engines and you have one link in that DIR.
If your not a rocket scientist... Thats 4000 new links for you, 800 per engine. That modest amount should give you some kinda traffic improvement. Should it not!

So:
Has this been done before?
Is it workable?
Am I stark raveing mad?
Is anyone interested in setting somthing like this up with me? Perhaps to put a think tank together.
Any thoughts, wisdom or questions?

Let me know what you think.

GG... Cheers

[OZGRESSION]

Could work... Get enough sites involved and I'll be in it.

cheers...

[kaspark]

I am interested. I think that it is great idea. I have thought about something like that.

It is better when this kind of directory is not just for search engines but also valuable for website visitors.
What do you think about this kind of solution:

This "micro" directory appears in the first line on the webpage. Something like:

Computers & internet / Services / Hosting / Member page
or if it goes too long then ... / Hosting / Member page

Why on top of the page? Then it is better for search engines, as they add more weight to the links/text that is top of the page. It is also useful for visitors as they see what directory describes the page best. Sometimes working with many browser windows you forget why you opened some page and when there is pretty much content (crap), figureing out takes time. In this case I just close these windows.
This kind of navigation is also used by portals and I find it very useful.

This directory link on top of the member's page opens the full directory (the part of directory where the member's page belongs). There is also possibility to submit new link. These links can also be dropdowns for better navigation.

Accepting new links can be done automatically, but I think it is better when someone takes manual look. Something like dmoz.org. This can be done by member who ownes the page where new link was submitted. In our case (comparing with dmoz.org) members are more interested about being editors because new members means new links in search engines. There can be also other motivators, for example if you get more new members you will get better ranking in this directory.

There has to be also "main website" where all members can download the part of directory that they find useful. In every member's website must be last updated notice.


Comments ...
Maybe there allready is something like that ...?


I am ready to spend some of my time for this kind of project.
Starting with it needs some members and content. I think content can be copied from some directory. If not the links, then at least this huge directory tree.



Kaspar

[OZGRESSION]

kaspark... I have a domain we can use. What we need is to work out how to do it (if that makes sense). For example, will it be done using a script or "hand edited" html pages.
A script would be the best option, however, the pages need to be 100% search engine primed. This idea has the chance of being big (and successful) if done properly.

cya

[kaspark]

I think that main directory must be even in some database format. And it is saved as html (this is done by script).

I am thinking about MySQL and PHP.
I can provide some coding and server.

This can be really cool project. All the founder members make an electronical agreement. Everybody has some tasks. If there will be any profit/available advertising space, it is distriputed among founder members according to this agreement.



Kaspar

[OZGRESSION]

What script/s do you have in mind?

[entimp]

Some good comments there and some thoughts in return.

The point is that no-one hosts it and that we all do, well at least the founding members act as the download points.

It should be written in ASP as a downloading site can then customise the look of the DIR with a few very simple pages.

I have already begun working on the idea and have a few existing programs in mind. Have just woke up not in the mood for expanding on this right now. But when I get to work tonight I will Write a few more notes on what I think.

I agree about the value as an additional tool and site improvement for any prospective hosters of the DIR. However, it is to improve traffic to our sites, if they feel good about hosting it, then bonus.

Ok so it seems I have some interested ppl in this idea. First thing we need to do is start up some kind of dialogue and find out what we can do and when we can do it!

How many ppl do you want to restrict the top level admin/and hosters too? i say about 6-10.

I want it to focus on Entertainment at first. We have to make sure that we dont create too much work for ourselves. If we get this succesful then we should have no problem creating other micro-DIR's and perhaps as you say creating a financial gain.

By being an original host/s we will have our urls at the top of every page, this is why I started this. They don't have to be big, just so the spiders see them. This goes for the other 6-10 original hosts of this DIR.

I said ASP would be good, but if you think it could be done better in another format/lang then we can discuss that.

There is lots to talk about and we need to find some way of doing this constructivly. I am excited about this and we can get it off the ground if try hard enough.

GG

[entimp]

I work in the UK and nights. I have all the time on my hands when i get there. Thus i will post a few thoughts I have had about how we can do this and certain mechanics.

Laters.
G

[kaspark]

View other comments from me.....

When the downloadable version is html, then it quarantees that every webmaster can join and put this directory up to his/her page. The backend script/system can be whatever is best for that system.
If it is html, it can also be customized. Updating directory is then little bit more complicated, but too much customization is also bad.

Another value for these admin hosters is that they can put their links to many categories. Usual member must choose one primary category, but if you are listed in many categories then it means more links to you.





Kaspar

[Dr. Web]

let me try to understand what your idea is:

a mini yahoo... portal type page, right? The first problem is that there are already quite a few GREAT portal sites out there. Check out www.coolhomepages.com They have a section dedicated to the best portal sites.

THe second thing you mentioned is a directory that can be altered and so forth by the webmasters. IF your idea is to fly, you need not set up anything to be downloaded in zip files or whatnot. no weekly updates (this will kill you since this makes it harder for people to keep current).

you need to have your directory stored in a database, and just link to the information. Check out any of the free newsfeeds out there... www.moreover.com comes to mind. THese give you an idea of how to display changing content (thiers: news, yours: directory) while letting the user do a 'one time' setup. Less overhead for the webmaster is better.

YOu might display the directory in a nice little trim DHTML menu... that hides.. but displays all your 'links' into a nifty space saving design. However, the main caveat in doing it this way is that users need to know how to drop in the menu (and customize). Also, a good DHTML menu with around 100 links will add about 50k to the finished HTML page. Thats a little expensive.



Overall, you need to get a central point for the directory to live. A webserver with a database back end. All the updates/ submissions/ deletions/ edits would go through this site. Then, and remember: this is the key, you link to this information from all over the web. This still accoplishes what you want. Tons of people 'host' the directory on thier sites, while the actual information comes from one source. Ieach website that utilizes the directory would have links to tons of sites in it, as well as pointing to the original web directory.

I wont go too far into 'why' you dont want to have multiple copies of the directorie on the net. Heres a basic example. One copy of the directorie has 1500 links, another has 800. How do you sinc them up, make sure there are no duplicates, and send the directories back out to the owners? IF you do it this way, your making an administrative nightmare for yourself.

I don't know if I see this working though. First off, you need to realize that the center point.... the directory web server and database would cost 'some' money to run for a year. Second, bandwith. Yes, I know that noone likes to think about such things... but its true, it does cost money. If you have 1000 sites all linked to the directory, each site making a call to the directory for each page visit... well you do the math. You'd run out of bandwith in no time flat. And since bandwith costs money, who pays for it in your scenerio?

YOu could possible set the whole thing up, and charge for membership in the original portal site. This would allow you to cover costs of bandwith. But, lest we forget.... in the end, you'd still be competing with the big boys of the portal world... .yahoo, msn, excite and so on.

[entimp]

At moment bandwidth costs me zip, and will likely continue to do so. Won't explain how but it doesnt cost a thing for me to host and run.

Question: Is there anyway of giving a html doc a finite life? I know you can create a cache limit ie

META http-equiv="expires" content="what ever date"

Will this stop anyone from viewing the said page after it expires? This will force som1 to get a new copy of the DIR.
Could they just change the META. No! because they will have to change every page and/or the meta will done as a server side include from the main host page.

That raises a question, can you run a serverside include from one domain to another?

I dont intend the DIR to be too big, and I'm not really interested in making money from it. If it does it does. Sorry if anyone sees this as a money making idea. I hate pop ups and banners. My site does not use them and never will. As the first post says it is away of getting my site and anyone elses better traffic via search engines.

No-1 has really answered my original poser, can such a thing work???

[entimp]

Yey!!! I am Level 2 heh heh. :jamin: :rocker: :lurk: :joke:

[fredricknish]

The idea would sound good with a few changes.

Allowing people to download a zip file of the directory would be a stupid idea.You would have a lot of problems if u let ppl download the directory.Instead you can make a customizable template for the directory so that ppl can integrate it into their sites.I agree with what Doc said,you will need a central point for the directory.


Originally posted by kaspark

There can be also other motivators, for example if you get more new members you will get better ranking in this directory.


Thats a bad idea.That would turn off most people.


Originally posted by entimp
Won't explain how but it doesnt cost a thing for me to host and run.


If you gona run this site alone,no problem...you dont have to tell us but if you want partners to work on this site then u gota tell us how u get the bandwidth.:D

I think you must have some source of revenue from the site.At some point you would need $ for somethin.

[OZGRESSION]

The SSI option would be good, however, will the webmaster's page with the SSI on it be spidered as unique page or just as an included part from the "host site"? Lets not forgot this is not just another directory site (there are hundreds of them), this is both a directory and a search engine ranking tool. The major offset is that the webmaster will have a customizable directory that will add "stickiness" to the site, not to mention the traffic the webmaster will get from being listed in the directory.

[entimp]

From the top

1]How I run my web space and my bandwidth is no-ones business except my own.

2]I am not in this for a quick financial fix. If you are then I am not interested. If it makes money at some point then so be it. I am in this to improve my authoring skills and attracting more traffic to my site.

The premis is very simple... to have more than one person host the DIR and improve search engine rankings. I don't really care what it is written in ASP, HTML, PHP etc as long as it can be spidered.



No Money, No Pop Ups and No Ads!!!
If you are interested in increased traffic then I am prepared to listen.

Anyone still interested?

[fredricknish]

Originally posted by entimp
From the top

1]How I run my web space and my bandwidth is no-ones business except my own.

Anyone still interested?



Nope


Goodluck :D

[kevin]

hmmm..... why not just invest all the time and energy into building a website with compelling content or service, that will generate more traffic than anything else. Once your site becomes popular the amount of links to it should increase naturally.....no?

[entimp]

I now happen to agree Kevin.
Seems everyone wants to make money and know how I run my web site rather than get involved in what could be a reasonable idea.

I had hoped that I would have got more decent repsonses, some have been good don't get me wrong, just thought the idea was a cracking one.

Gonna concentrate on my site more than anything... besides just got paid work for doing one for someone else.

Thanks to all those you got involved in this discussion anyway.

Ent Imp