WYSIWYG

[Jason]

What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get

Well, is it, or isn't it? I want answers people! http://talkboard.123webmaster.com/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif

------------------
Jason M. DesRoches
Co-Founder / Business Development
Big Resources Network
jason@123webmaster.com
ICQ: 17947522

[ivonnieda]

Are you wanting to know about WYSIWYG HTML editors, or something else?



------------------
Isaac
Admin
Big Resources Inc.
isaac@123webmaster.net
ICQ# 71401549

[Jason]

Yup Isaac,

I'm talking about the editor, and how it often isn't what you get http://talkboard.123webmaster.com/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif

I'm looking for experiences (and gripes of course!) Have you gotten what you've seen?

------------------
Jason M. DesRoches
Co-Founder / Business Development
Big Resources Network
jason@123webmaster.com
ICQ: 17947522

[jalouda]

The only WYSIWYG editor I have tried so far is the MS Word's web page making bit, and it put me off them for life!!!

I am sure most WYSIWYG editors are not as bad but with Word I didn't get anything remotely like what I saw most of the time.

I would make tables and align text or images and it would all look fine in Word even when I went to web page preview. Then, I would view it as a web page proper and it would look completely different - the positioning would be a mess!!

When i started to learn HTML, I thought I could fix things by looking at the source. But I think pages made in Word are written in a different language. I would think I just needed to fix an align attribute or two but the whole code was a mess. Bits were still there that were to do with an image or paragraph I had deleted in WYSIWYG mode. Other bits didn't make sense. I would fix things up as best I could and save the changes in source mode. Then, I would work on my page the next day and all the stuff I had fixed would be wrong again!

I look forward to hearing the views of others. I don't want MS Word to put me off ever trying WYSIWYG editors because I am sure some of the more powerful ones can do some great stuff http://talkboard.123webmaster.com/ubbhtml/smile.gif

------------------
~jalouda~
moderator 123webmaster (http://www.123webmaster.com)
* jalouda@iol.ie
* http://www.geocities.com/jaloudasworld/

[docreed]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jalouda:
The only WYSIWYG editor I have tried so far is the MS Word's web page making bit, and it put me off them for life!!!

I am sure most WYSIWYG editors are not as bad but with Word I didn't get anything remotely like what I saw most of the time.

I would make tables and align text or images and it would all look fine in Word even when I went to web page preview. Then, I would view it as a web page proper and it would look completely different - the positioning would be a mess!!

When i started to learn HTML, I thought I could fix things by looking at the source. But I think pages made in Word are written in a different language. I would think I just needed to fix an align attribute or two but the whole code was a mess. Bits were still there that were to do with an image or paragraph I had deleted in WYSIWYG mode. Other bits didn't make sense. I would fix things up as best I could and save the changes in source mode. Then, I would work on my page the next day and all the stuff I had fixed would be wrong again!

I look forward to hearing the views of others. I don't want MS Word to put me off ever trying WYSIWYG editors because I am sure some of the more powerful ones can do some great stuff http://talkboard.123webmaster.com/ubbhtml/smile.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well jalouda,
I have found out that microsoft has there oun way to write code. I think it is there way to make things difficult for people that use other browsers.
I worked very hard on a web site using Front page 2000 only to find that theirforms donot work in other browsers! What a let down! Now I use Dreamweaver 3. It seams to write code better and things do look like you make them. SO don't give up on wysiwyg editers, just don't use microsoft products to make HTML.

Have fun
Doc reed

------------------

[jehraen]

I'm neutral towards WYSIWYG html editors. Thing is, I think it's great for newbies. People starting out with website design can learn quite a few things by using such editors and then looking at the source code. I myself used Netscape Composer and I got the results I wanted. Only gripe I have is that it wrote excess code, resulting in longer download times for large pages. :p

I took it upon myself to learn html and in conjunction with Composer, I was able to teach myself. I tried Dreamweaver too and although it's reputedly the best editor out there, I still prefer to write in notepad. :)
But then again, that's just me. ;)

[whkoh]

I use notepad, but there are some fine WYSIWYG editors out there too. Examples are:

HoTMetaL Pro (http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1499955.html?tag=st.dl.10001-103-1.lst-7-1.1499955)
HotDog Pro (http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-2426071.html?tag=st.dl.10001-103-1.lst-7-1.2426071)
CoffeeCup HTML (http://download.cnet.com/go/to?tag=ex.dl.10001-103-1.splst-7-1.3876146&destUrl=/downloads/0-4003353-100-3876146.html)
Hope it helps.

------------------
Koh Wei Han
Network Engineer
Contact: whkoh@apexmail.com , whkoh@mailandnews.com , whkoh@020.co.uk

[sfry]

editors....most of them screw up the html in a way that you may not recognize. If you want to use one, use macromedia dreamweaver...easy to us, but as with any editor it over uses tables within tables....which is not backward compatible. It is easy to learn for beginners, and most importantly doesn't mess up your original code. On the downside.....some pages reder a bit differently in Nestcape!

[MasterDave]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jason:
What-You-See-Is-What-You-Get

Well, is it, or isn't it? I want answers people! http://talkboard.123webmaster.com/ubbhtml/biggrin.gif

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is no such thing as WYSIWYG.
What is said below about being good for beginners is right. I Started with Visual Page, very easy. Dreamweaver is a little more advanced.
But soon as you can learn html.
Overall though, get cutehtml, it is a straight html editor but it pops up html tags according to what you type, very good.

If you do websites the bests are cutehtml and aceftp, believe me, I have tried them all, only these two are the best.

But then that is me.
Websites are like the Matrix, Some Rules can be bent others can be broken!

MasterDave
(also called "MatrixMaster")

[SteveS235]

As a newbie to web building myself, I started with and still use Front Page 2000 (insert boos here!), but I also bought one of the hundreds of teach yourself HTML books that are out there. About half of my code is done by hand, but as a newbie, I also have a very basic site.

When I started, I for some reason couldn't figure out how to code tables by hand. I used FP to do it, and then studied the source code to see how they are constructed. I still use that method for certain things.

For small, basic beginner sites with straight HTML, I think FP2000 and other editors are fine, but I think that if you want to get into serious and extensive design, you need to write the code by hand. Hopefully I'll get there myself someday!

[Doni FN]

If you really want to put those wysiwyg editors to a test try coding a layout like 123webmaster.com with multiple forms embedded within the template.

My tool of choice as far as the basic layout goes is using imageready to do the slices then edit the html in notepad or cold fusion studio from there.

------------------
Need Free Web Graphics?
FreeWebTemplates (http://www.freewebtemplates.com)

[Wabanaki Web]

Originally posted by whkoh
I use notepad, but there are some fine WYSIWYG editors out there too. Examples are:

HoTMetaL Pro (http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-1499955.html?tag=st.dl.10001-103-1.lst-7-1.1499955)
HotDog Pro (http://download.cnet.com/downloads/0-4003353-100-2426071.html?tag=st.dl.10001-103-1.lst-7-1.2426071)
CoffeeCup HTML (http://download.cnet.com/go/to?tag=ex.dl.10001-103-1.splst-7-1.3876146&destUrl=/downloads/0-4003353-100-3876146.html)
Hope it helps.

------------------
Koh Wei Han
Network Engineer
Contact: whkoh@apexmail.com , whkoh@mailandnews.com , whkoh@020.co.uk

I use hotdog pro because it is NOT a wysiwyg editor, I don't think hotmetal is either. You are editing code directly with both of those. I think anyone who is serious about doing websites other than a personal page or two should get themselves a few books and learn what the codes mean. I could write my pages in notepad (and have) but using something like hotdog makes it so easy, once you know what the codes are for and how they display your pages.

Personal opinion, wysiwyg html editors stink! Too much extra coding.

[warrencon]

I like Web Express. It's the best $69 I have spent. It inserts very little excess code unless you ask it to. Has helped me learn HTML as well as made me a few bucks. It's quick and accurate, but lets you tweak the code if you want to, and will insert any hand coding you want it too without screwing with it.

[Dr. Web]

WYSIWYG....? maybe for IE users, but not for cross browser design. I mean really, lots of the posts we see here about pages not rendering correctly, or forms not working as expected are written with a WYSIWYG editor. I agree they are good for beginners, but you don't learn squat that way- its hard to add extended functionality/ or a really complex layout while avoiding numerous issues. I know its a lot harder to code it by hand, but a large number of the posted errors are avoided by doing it this way, the first time. I use Allaire HOmesite/ Coldfusion for HTML/ CSS/ JavaScript/ XML/ DHTML....and Kawa (allaire's sister product) for Java development. They recognize and color code certain elements of code for easy recognition.

[Ian]

I seriously think it depends on the type of editor and how well you know the software. If you want your site cross browser compatable using WYSIWYG, then Netscape Composer has to be the way to go, if something is created in that, then it will render in IE the way it is ment to be. IE related composers seem to put tons of extra unnecessary tags and rubbish in your page and have a habit of not closing tags which make it difficult for other browsers to interpret. ( Frontpage and Frontpage Express have always been known to do this ).
If you know NS Composer well, you will find it is quite a powerful tool and easy to set up and align things like tables and basic html. It also consists of a good script debugging reporter which I find helpful. Yes, it does still have its flaws and will not allow you to do some of the more complex html coding techniques and in many cases is a problem when it comes to writing in the head among other things. It is also very helpful when problem solving, as you can open your page in composer and SEE where you are messing up, instead of getting lost looking at tons of text.
For a beginner a WYSIWYG editor is the way to go, however, once you get past building your basic home page, then you really need to move on to some sort of text editor.
I now do most of the basic formatting and layout in NS Composer but then open it in Arachnophilia 4 ( Free to download at http://www.arachnoid.com/arachnophilia/index.html ), which I find is an excellent editor, and tweak it to the way I want the final look to be.
To be able to use a text editor to create web pages, you really need a good understanding of html and to be able to visualize the out come of your creation, this is achieved through hands on experience and time, and until then one of the best ways to learn is by using a WYSIWYG editor.

This is not an advert for NS, but just my views based on my experience with using various tools over the years to create web sites, solve others problems and what I have felt comfortable with.

[Jason]

I never got around that crutch either. Although I know HTML very well, I first learned to make pages in NS Composer. I still use it for making basic layouts, although I usually do updates in wordpad, since composer will destroy any script, remotely hosted image, etc.

[Dr. Web]

I had to kick the crutch long time ago, as in our development, no WYSIWYG editors are allowed. We hand code everything in the coldfusion editing environment. NO we don't use the "design" mode either. Seems like sooner or later, your going to get your hands dirty.....

[darksidepuffin]

Yo Peeps I highly Recommend Macromedia Dreamweaver,really good,easy to learn,excellent features.

[whkoh]

Check out the cool recommendation from C|Net, oh, and its free too.
http://download.cnet.com/downloads/1,10150,0-10001-103-0-1-7,00.html?tag=srch&qt=frehtml&cn=&ca=10001&SWLink=false?tag=sptlt_hed

[Unregistered]

Use First Page 2000 (evrsoft.com) - its not WYSIWIG! However it is good for those who don't want that. I say edit it in WYSIWIG and fine tune it in First Page.

[Christian1972]

I don't like any Wysiwyg-proggis

They all write many unnecessary tags in your code.
I think it is better to type it alone from the start(also to learn it...)

I only use Phase 5 to edit the sourcecode
It has really mass functions, but will only put tags in, you asked for!

Try it:

http://www.meybohm.de/htmledit/index.html

it's freeware, 887 kb exe-file

but remember: it's german!
I don't know an english version of it...